PDA

View Full Version : Broadcasting World, Time To Change?



qmr
03-04-2010, 03:23 PM
We all love our broadcasting world, from those professionals who work for established land based broadcasters to voice over artists and to internet broadcasters / hobbyists.

I see from time to time new members who don't read the rules and post immediately asking for voice overs for their net station, and VO professionals moaning about it and in some cases actually throwing in the towel and leave our social site.

Reading through the chat box today I see one such cause for unhappiness and a suggestion for BW.

Thinking about it maybe changing BW wouldn't be a bad thing after all.

There are two main types of broadcasters, professional and amateur.

Professionals won't ask for a freebie it will always be the amateurs, so can't we change to voice over section so only members who have made a limited number of posts post in the section by scripting and not just hope that these members just abide by the rules which they obviously don't.

For this site to remain professional we need to stop these here today, gone tomorrow types from watering down our standards by asking for freebies when clearly they haven't contributed towards receiving them.

Aeolus
03-04-2010, 03:37 PM
so can't we change to voice over section so only members who have made a limited number of posts post in the section

I believe James has allready changed it that way a couple of weeks ago... :)

qmr
03-04-2010, 04:00 PM
I believe James has allready changed it that way a couple of weeks ago... :)

Has he? Cool if he has

James
03-04-2010, 10:15 PM
Has he? Cool if he has
Yep, i put in a 10 post minimum. If a user has under 10 posts, they see a message and a link to the rules :)

Let me know if you have any other suggestions! :)

ajruss
03-08-2010, 07:35 PM
James how about stop the free voice overs and make it the first one is 75% off.

Lloyd
03-09-2010, 04:19 AM
I say we should remove the free voice overs for a month or two.

Their a privilege. Not a right.

MarcAlle
03-09-2010, 10:59 PM
I second that Lloyd!

wildun
03-10-2010, 04:41 PM
Maybe a compromise .. You can ask but you may not receive? It's up to the VO people to respond or not. Put in the topic description that if they have not followed the rules .. It aint happening? If they did maybe. Obviously it helps the website traffic to have free and encourages new members. I think what we want are active members. Maybe consider adding the details that they can't ask again until 50 posts or something like that. Make a third request a 100 posts etc. I would think it would benefit all parties. Just an idea.

wildun
03-10-2010, 04:58 PM
I just saw something that made a lot of sense. In exchange for a free voiceover they provide a link to vo artist. Links are a valuble commodity on the internet and it would at minimum give the vo person some kind of compensation. Having been and still am a SEO person, I know the value of external links. Granted there is no way to get your vo back if they choose to remove your link, there is the possibility to check the link and if it's not there no vo person will respond to the request.
Sorry I'm brainstorming this subject.

EricVdM
03-10-2010, 07:32 PM
What when they put a link on there site and remove it as they received the liners?

Baabaa Productions
03-10-2010, 08:01 PM
Loads of over reaction here. 10 posts is excessive ...I really fear the way the site is going at the moment. I dont see that there is a problem........don't let the few spoil this site. We either do feebies or we dont. Simple as .........I fear soon we will introduce hanging for anyone that requests a freebie....... Its simple either you do it or you don't. Lets not get to hung up on rules....Hey just my thoughts.


Mark:no:

EricVdM
03-10-2010, 08:07 PM
you're right Mark, it's up to the vo's to do it or not and with the rules James has made must help the guys :schmoll: sorry and girls :P

wildun
03-11-2010, 05:12 PM
It's always up to the vo people to respond, or not. I think the point is that to benefit everyone, the requester should be active on BW, not just join ask for a voiceover never to be heard from again, until they want another vo done.

My suggestions were meant to promote that objective, the numbers were off the top of my head. Free can lead to payed and that's a good thing. Making it too hard to get free can deter people from even asking. A thank you or giving rep should be expected as a minimum I would think.

To be blunt, if you don't want to do free, don't. If you do, then do. People are creatures of habit, I want this, I did what I needed to do get it, I'm done. If they have to do 10 posts to get it, they will. They may not say thank you or give a rep because they did the 10 required posts. Dang if you do, Dang if you don't.

I honestly don't know the right answer since it involves so many people with so many different opinions.

andhow
06-06-2011, 04:54 AM
I pay for all of my voice overs. If someone is going to use their talents, then they should be paid for them. I wouldn't pay for voice imaging unless I was happy with it though.

I get one for free every now and then, but that is because I am such a good customer. I think that the good radio stations that have the financial support should have great sounding imaging. The ones that don't...don't. It is really that simple.

I like that James has created a minimum post limit.

I have more a of a problem with radio stations who don't pay their licensing fees.

billh
06-06-2011, 03:14 PM
andhow "I have more a of a problem with radio stations who don't pay their licensing fees"

I don't mean to sound rude or anything but. People not paying fees has nothing to do with an income from doing work for people. I'm sure if someone doesn't pay the fess it isn't going to hurt you in anyway. It isn't money and time out of your pocket. If you spent hours doing voice overs and got nothing in return. Then it becomes a pain in the backside and you just end up saying forget it.

BW has lost a lot of voice over artists and they where some of the best voice over artists around.

#############################################



I posted a topic awhile back saying I was all done doing free voice overs. Unless I knew who was asking. The problem has become even real broadcasters/DJ's are requesting free voice overs. Not just the people that are doing it as a hobby. I started searching people that made a request and found a good number of them where real FM stations and or DJ's that got paid. I have been told by people in the UK they have heard me on the radio over there and it was a VO I did as a free request(s) on BW. So the stations etc. are requesting free voice overs, not paying for them and using them on the stations/shows. All they need to do is go from one site to the next and someone will do it sooner or later. They type up their request like they are in radio as a hobby and you get sucked in and do it.

I got so sick of people and their requests and thinking fees should be lower, I even removed my pricing from my sites. So I no longer accept paid VO's unless I know the person and I have become very selective who I do free voice overs for. Plus there are request that I don't do because I don't think my voice will fit the style show or the request in general.

I will be the first one to say my voice isn't for everyone. But thatís how it is, you either like it or you don't. Also I don't do a lot of production on my voice overs. Because I don't hide anything. So I don't add all kinds of effects etc. to cover it up. I found one site using a computer voice. Because there is no way the person could talk or anyone could talk like they did. And if you really listened to the voice you could tell is was a computer generated voice. BUT! People love it and pay this person/site. Of course they add all kinds of zips and zaps and cool sounds to it. Thatís what most people think a voice over is anyway these days. Thatís just to cover things up. Plus all of the fees are or where cheap, if I charged the same fees I might as well work for free.

Being a voice over artists today you are kind of being told, You don't have any bills to pay, you don't need to eat or anything like that. This is across all types of voice overs. The rates are just getting lower and lower. So I just do request on BW for the most part, if anyone makes a donation cool. But even they are far a few in-between. You might as will find something new to do.

Plus I am more into having fun with my voice (comedy style), doing voices or what ever like Pappy, JR, Billy Bob, The God Father or who even else I come up with. I know there isn't a lot of request for them or my style on BW :)

Well here I go again, I was only going to make a small comment and well....

The Grumpy Old Man

GKIye
06-06-2011, 04:27 PM
sorry but I didn't have seen this post since now

Its my idea that "currently" there are many new members who have the "hit and run" attitude ...
A while ago (March - April) there where many new members who hit the donate button at once
So ... doing reads is a kind of playing at the casino ... you have to be lucky to being paid or not ...

BUT I have to say that new members in general should be pointed (even redirected !) at "any" time to the introduce yourself section ... That way WE know who the person or project is ...
After they made an introduction they are allowed to make requests

It sucks if someone with a hit and run attitude even don't leave a thank you reply, neither a rep for the work who's being done

billh
06-06-2011, 05:06 PM
How did I forget the hit and run people? I must be getting old ;)

If anyone checks they'll find GK is doing most of the request these days :)

I do some here and there and we have a couple of other people that do them sometimes. At onetime you could post a request and who knows how many replies you'd get. It was a lot more than 1 maybe 4 if your lucky today.

As I said before, the Free Request is used and abused, not only on BW. By way to many people that should offer to pay something. I bet I'm not be liked by a lot of people. That old guy is nuts. When you get older you don't care what people think, can't handle the truth to bad. Most people in todays world are greedy, cheap, rude and they want everything NOW and well I won't go there.

I'm glad I happen to know people that aren't like that and they are here on BW.

andhow
06-06-2011, 08:03 PM
I don't mean to sound rude or anything but. People not paying fees has nothing to do with an income from doing work for people. I'm sure if someone doesn't pay the fess it isn't going to hurt you in anyway. It isn't money and time out of your pocket. If you spent hours doing voice overs and got nothing in return. Then it becomes a pain in the backside and you just end up saying forget it.


I don't think you were being rude as much as you did not understand my point. I have a problem because it is illegal, it is unprofessional and it is wrong. There are too many amateurs out there, not paying their licensing fees. Some of us are professionals and conduct ourselves as such. I think you missed the whole message that I was trying to convey. I was supporting that voice imaging should be a paid service and not done for free. The problem with the forums and everybody and his cat wanting something for free has to do with too many amateurs out there wanting something for nothing. They are the ones who usually don't pay licensing fees. Those are the people that I am tired of. :no:

garybaldy72uk
06-06-2011, 11:56 PM
Ok i feel i need my 2 cents worth on this one.

A Minimum Post count of 50 and that way they have at least Used the site and contributed!

Ive helped out around BW and im only a Hobby broadcaster.

Bill i will pay for a licence when my listener numbers increase and pay for any Voiceovers when i get some readies in me Pay pal.

Seems my bank is having problems transfering to pay pal otherwise the money would have been donated for my requested voiceovers ....

Someone show me a Viable option that aint western union or Pay pal for money transfer and ill try that.

I like BW just feel some of the newer users are either Rude when they dont get what they want or are just here for the Free V/O and run.

GKIye
06-07-2011, 01:24 AM
I'm almost sure those people can be found at any forum


newer users are either Rude when they dont get what they want or are just here for the Free V/O and run.
... and most of them are crossposters who are making the same request at many forums ... that way they get many free reads :schmoll:

billh
06-07-2011, 04:10 AM
lol Gary, You can ask for free VO's your a member of BW and none of us mind helping each other. It's the grab and run and for profit stations/DJ's.

andhow, I know what your saying. If people don't have a license and they get caught they pay the price, and they know it. About the only way to stop it is, not to allow people to stream outside their own country. They would need to have very stringent laws and ways to track who is doing what. But that would kill internet streaming and there is way to much money being made for anyone to do anything like that. I've heard they are or where talking about passing a law here and people would actually do jail time. I think that idea is crazy. But then again the people in our Govt only go by what Big Business tells them, because they own them. Because they bribed I mean made a donation to them.

But this topic is going to be beat to death. It seems like we go thru this every now and then lol It's good to vent now and then, then it's back to the same old thing. Because no mater what is tried it just doesn't seem to work and there is no way to stop it. So it is left up the the voice artists if they do requests or not. Myself I am getting to the point I'm not doing them.

andhow
06-07-2011, 04:19 AM
Ive helped out around BW and im only a Hobby broadcaster.

Bill i will pay for a licence when my listener numbers increase...

Shame on ya mate. Pure and simple. :no:

If you can't afford the licensing then you should not be broadcasting. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

jamesdean
06-07-2011, 05:59 AM
So all offshore and onshore pirate radio was wrong then? Even though it shaped what proper radio should be? These never paid their fees yet they were highly popular and did pay the price eventually. There are still many more pirates these days, not the bad ones who may support the drugs culture but good ones who play proper music with decent presenters, not the usual churned out hyper idiots. There are many internet stations the same. I know many station operators, a few who pay their fees and moan like hell (sound familiar) and others who don't pay the royalties who do a great job. It's up to them if they want to conform, they know the risks. Let them get on with it and don't get too dizzy up there on your high horse.....!

andhow
06-07-2011, 09:43 AM
Based on our return listenership logs, we don't have the problem of being a churned out internet station that plays the same thing. Good try though.

Upon reading your other posts that you have made, it appears that you pride yourself on being a forum troll. So I am not going to hold much weight into your response that you have obviously made to make yourself feel superior.

But thanks for coming.

jamesdean
06-07-2011, 06:07 PM
I think you will find I have an opinion, like you. Where did I say you are a churned out internet station? I was on about the churned out hyper idiot DJ's there are on commercial radio.
My point is/was not all people who don't pay fees are bad.... you think they are, I do not as there has been some great pirate radio. I am not a troll either, why say such a thing? I like to make a point and as for feeling superior, I don't need any site for that. I normally comment on people that cause trouble you will see but on this occasion I wanted to get my side across. If you misinterpret what I wrote then I am sorry that happened.
Oh, are you a real Reverend by the way?

garybaldy72uk
06-07-2011, 07:53 PM
Thats one person added to my Block list .... there are some people around the net that shouldnt be allowed to use it !

James dont let him worry you!

jamesdean
06-07-2011, 10:02 PM
No I am not worried Gary, just playing along with this troll thing. BW members know what's what.

GKIye
06-08-2011, 12:39 AM
Coming soon to a theater near you

just playing along with this troll thing. BW members know what's what.
Mr Goodness "the troll" JamesDean :clap:
http://www.isnanchordesk.com/autos/harrypotter/tjones.jpg
I think We are ready to miss some things here ...
Subject of the topic is about "time to change" ... and it goes about BW and the issue about free voice-overs to new members and members in general (date 03-04-2010)

I wanna point also some people to a reality check ...
BW is a forum about broadcasting, not about rules to broadcast
However BW has a content who can give new broadcasters some ideas of what can be done to achieve a good quality station (internet, FM and/or AM) and We all as BW member can contribute to reach them some help ...
The majority of daily members have a background in broadcasting, both professional or as former professional
As former professional (since 1978) I paid "years" my taxes as a good citizen
Today, both some voice-over work and production is done by Me as hobby and as a non-profit activity ... unless a member hit the donate button (appreciated at all time)

I have a HUGE collection of musicbeds, SFX elements,tons of software etc etc, I'm even able to make my own elements and beds
Lets make a deal :
All of that "aid" to make a produced ID for a fellow BW member costs money
So into the future I am able to ask members money for the work I have done ...
right or not ?
The answer = NO !
I do this for the community ... and I repeat : people may use my donate link at anytime
If all work who is being done "in real life" by human beings, has to start with "pay taxes first" ... well than a lot of local non-profit communities have to close doors at once ...
Be glad that there are still people around who like to do things to other human beings ... for free, without asking "are you able to do something in return"

Be glad that We are all alive, the today world ain't easy, there are believers and non-believers ... let all people live their life and there's no need anymore to start a global war ...
The www can be kept peacefull ... lets start with that idea at BW :kiss:

jamesdean
06-08-2011, 05:49 AM
Harry potter fan Phil? lol

GKIye
06-08-2011, 01:27 PM
Well ... not yet ...

Harry potter fan Phil? lol
I was just spreading the word :cool:

Spinny
06-15-2011, 07:27 PM
This has been an interesting thread. As an amateur who simply has fun with production, I have no clue how the professional world of VO and production really work. But, I am going to throw my two cents worth in anyway.

The section marked "[Donation] Request A Premium Voiceover/Production (http://forums.broadcastingworld.net/forumdisplay.php?130-Donation-Request-A-Premium-Voiceover-Production)" should be changed to "Professional Voiceovers/Production Requiring a Donation" This section can allow all visitors to request. Only the professionals cleared by BW should be allowed to respond. Anyone should be allowed to download so they can hear what has been provided to the payer of the service. In my opinion, too many people who lack the experience are providing production material for donations. Some of them sound absolutely horrible. I personally only go into this section to listen to what has been produced even if it does have a watermark. I find most of these to be well done and worth the money. In my personal opinion, if only the proven professionals were allowed to respond in this section and the amateurs were allowed to respond in the section marked "[Free] Request A Free Sample Voiceover/Production (http://forums.broadcastingworld.net/forumdisplay.php?101-Free-Request-A-Free-Sample-Voiceover-Production)", you would probably find more money crossing hands. Just an example but if you gave a specific task to BILL, First Acts, or BAABAA and gave the same specific task to someone like me and one or two other known amateurs, than asked people to vote on it, its no contest. I could pretty much guarantee who would be chosen as the best. Hence more money crossing hands. The bottom line, if you want quality, you pay for quality. Thats not to say there aren't good amateurs, they just have to work hard at getting into the pay section.


The section marked "[Free] Request A Free Sample Voiceover/Production (http://forums.broadcastingworld.net/forumdisplay.php?101-Free-Request-A-Free-Sample-Voiceover-Production)" can remain as is but all requests should be responded only by the amateurs. I guarantee you there will be a huge difference. The quality stations and quality DJ's will be going to the professional section for what they need in most cases. Let the amateurs do the free stuff. It gives them experience and eventually, if they become good enough and turn it into a business, they can move over to the Pro section. An added benefit is there might not be too many responses by amateurs.

Free stuff is already available through the "sound effects and general bits section" and pros and amateurs can contribute, as they do now, to showcase their talents.

I just feel that the true pros deserve to be paid, have earned that right to be paid, and certainly have the necessary abilities. Every Tom, Dick, And Harry, should not be allowed to provide a paid service and unless I am mistaken, that's how it is working.

I don't know if James has the capability of restricting who can provide talent in the pro section, but it seems to me this wouldn't be too difficult. Coming up with the requirements to provide talent in the Pro section is a whole different matter, but I am sure the Pros can help determine the requirements.

I have the utmost respect for the professional production and voice over talent on here and other forums. I feel very strongly that something needs to be done to ensure their talent is not overlooked and not wasted. The current requirement of ten posts.....well....lets just say that doesn't mean a thing to me....ten posts is nothing. BW can take the lead in this and become the premiere site for professional work and the premier site for amateur showcase. Just need to take that leap. And even if my idea sucks, certainly a discussion outside the forum, with pros and amateurs alike, can make this site the premere site.

There is no doubt that free stuff is being used on Am/FM, Satellite, and internet radio. And it's being used TO MAKE MONEY! Thats not always a bad thing but it isn't fair, especially when proper credit isn't given.

As far as licensing goes, I'm gonna leave that sore subject alone. Mainly because there are two sides to this story and they are both good arguments.

Just my two and half cents worth,

Tom

jamesdean
06-15-2011, 09:55 PM
Good post Tom, some interesting points there.