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  1. #1

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    Sennheiser e835 vs Behringer C-1

    We currently have 3 e835 (not ideal but we already had them at the venue) and keeping the levels under control for radio is a nightmare (we are putting a compressor in but not a fan of them).

    We need another mic and was wondering if we should do for a Behringer C-1. Will mixing them cause a big problem. They seem the only thing in the price range and seem to get good reviews.

    The e835b is described as a dynamic cardioid, the C-1 a condenser. Which would make keeping the levels under control best?

  2. #2

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    You will need a very quiet recording space when using a condenser mic. It will pick up fans running, air conditioner noise, other people in the room clearing their throats, moving around in their seats etc.... If you have a noisy environment you would be better off to stay with a dynamic mic. Condenser mics are usually used in a treated studio for recording with no room noise, cause it will pick up deflections bouncing off the walls and ceilings. It will pick up cars on the street or lawn mowers running outside, if the room is not well treated to stop noise. It will also pick up a lot of mouth noises from most guest when they speak, such as tongue clicks, and that can get very annoying for listeners.

    Remember that other guest speaking on their dynamic mics will also be picked up by the condenser mic that may be setting across the table and will give a echo effect while they speak. For round table type discussions, I would not recommend use of condenser mics, unless each guest is in a separate room. I have attached a file for you to hear an untreated recording of a condenser mic. This room is untreated, except for a thin carpet on the floor. Put on a set of headphones and turn the volume way up to hear all the background noise. If you have audacity, play this file and notice the volume on the meter. It is quite low compared to what I would normally try to set my volume at. One last note is that I have my computer outside the room that I record in and the wall is actually insulated. If I turn my mic gain up to around 65% I will actually pic up the fan noise of my computer through the insulated wall.
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    Last edited by Wayne S.; 08-06-2015 at 08:47 PM.

  3. #3

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    So is there anything else for under 150 worth considering. Am I correct is thinking the a compressor/limiter will make it a lot easier to keep he levels under control. I did manage to to out a C-1 and you had to get very close to get reasonable levels so don't think it will work with guests anyway.

  4. #4

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    Watch this video and check out the "show more" section below the mic and compare what the mics sound like and the adjustments that are made. You will notice that as he adds the noise gate, limiter and compressor it completely kills background noise. Just remember to set up each mic at a separate volume based on each speaker doing a mic check before starting. Some will not need as much mic gain as others that speak softer. You have a decent mic just have to provide the proper chain to get the sound that your looking for. Just don't go overboard on the compression, cause it will affect the audio quality as the conversation gets louder. I'm starting you out in the dynamic mic section to show what kind of difference the chain makes.
    https://youtu.be/K-PnIhRSMsw?t=12m11s
    Last edited by Wayne S.; 08-07-2015 at 05:49 AM.

  5. #5

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    Thanks. By levels I take it you mean the levels on the desk. I do do this and tweak during the show if necessary. Background noise is not the issue, it is the big difference in the volume people speak (i.e. when they get excited). Even when I keep the levels fairly low it does not take much for peoples to speak louder or come closer to the mike and the signal to peek (or get close to it). This can be difficult to catch and even if I do the output of the show will have varying levels which I want to (generally) avoid. I was hoping the compressor would help with this (and in extrema case the limiter to help), normalising things (to a point).

    Now FCP X video editing as well as having a compressor has a thing called loudness control. It has two settings, amount and uniformity. The amount is the max dB gain or reduction. The uniformity is how smoothly/aggressively the changes are made. Obviously this is something that is done afterwords as the audio is processed in or maybe not. I guess if the unit had a buffer of a few seconds it could do this.

    We also have a behringer loudness processor (I think that is what it is called), will this do something like this?

    Ben

  6. #6

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    Ok, this link will show you what your looking for. Doesn't have to be this particular model, but this is the type of processor your looking for. http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-MDX4600-BEHRINGER-MULTICOM-PRO-XL/dp/B000CCIVI4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424627916&sr=8-1&keywords=multicom+pro-xl+mdx4600 Read the reviews, as it does exactly what your trying to accomplish. Of course you could work with plugins and a DAW to accomplish the same thing. Most plugins work pretty good, but not as good as old fashioned hardware. If you would like to try a Daw and plugins, Reaper can be installed and comes with a 60 day trial period. To purchase, is US $60. That would include upgrades through version 5.99. The version is presently 4.78. So to purchase now would probably be good for at least a couple of years before having to pay for upgrades again. Here is a quick demo of compression in Reaper. The first half is with no compression and the second half with the compression to show the difference that compression makes in volumes. If you want to try out Reaper you can download it here. It comes with the compression plugin that I used to make this demo file, along with a lot more including EQ's, Gates etc.... http://www.reaper.fm/
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    Last edited by Wayne S.; 08-07-2015 at 09:07 PM.

  7. #7

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    Thanks. If I did it in post i would be woried that the levels I needed to set would be very low, to accommodate exited or shorty guests. I know you can boosed digital a lot but there is still the noise floor to consider and you are effectively reducing the resolution of the audio. Resolution may not be the corect word but you are using less bits to represent it.

  8. #8

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    The compression was done with Reaper while recording, not post production. I used two tracks, one raw and one with compression. You could set up tracks for each mic and run compression on your master that would compress all tracks. You would want to monitor your output signal to check proper levels and noise floor. That is what the Daw and plugins do, they emulate hardware. They will do the same thing as actual hardware.

    If you used the Compressor/Limiter hardware (make of your choice) it would also be done live while recording or straight to air. In other words, either method can be done live or post production. Just like would be done at a radio station or concert. Think about the noise floor of a live concert. They run gates, limiters, compressors and who knows what else while performing live.

    The compression test in prior post was only a compressor. I didn't use a limiter or gate for noise floor as I was trying to throw together something quick for you to see how it handled fluctuations of audio spikes. I also overused the compression to show how much you can control the spikes, in case of someone getting in a shouting match.
    Last edited by Wayne S.; 08-08-2015 at 04:36 PM.

  9. #9

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    Thanks for your help, unfortunately I cant view your attachment as I have only done 7 posts. We actually have a Behringer MDX2200 (and patch leads on order) that has been donated. Sounds like this will be better than using filters. I actually have audition CS6 myself but it may make seance to get a copy of Reaper for the studio.

    I was told it was not possible to put a compressor filter in place for recordings, only afterwords. Is this something Reaper can do but not Audition. i also thought that if the levels were too high when the signal came into the sound card there was nothing that could be done and the A to d in the card got kind of overloaded.

    The other thing is I tried to put filters in the effects rack before the recoding to lover the level but this did not work and was told it was not possible to do this in audition, are you saying it is in Reaper?

  10. #10

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    Are you doing a live show or recording to be broadcast later?

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