frankallen Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Hey Guys & Girls, Just a really Quick one from me Just wanted to say to you all Its Been A Pleasure Knowing & working with you, But My time has come to move on, No Fuss No Drama Just the politeness of a good bye. One Love To you all Frank http://i.imgur.com/qrEUBH7.png Check us out http://www.itsjustradio.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arfa B Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Hey Frank, I am rather sad to hear you are movin' on and out! I'll keep in touch if you fancy a beer? Cheers, (only I can say that with a proper slur.....hic!) Arf' If I have helped you with a Freebie- please be kind enough to add a link from your own site or blog to mine- thanks! http://arthurburton.net Thank You! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiborn Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Oh Frank, I tried to post before, but it said the thread was closed... :( Is everything ok? I am hoping that this move is just because you are busy and have a lot going on, and not for other reasons. I will miss you around here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankallen Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 Arfa Mate for sure we will keep in touch sir. Will give you a bell sometime .. Hey Marianne All is good its just that time Catch you over on skype from time to time http://i.imgur.com/qrEUBH7.png Check us out http://www.itsjustradio.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonas Piiroinen Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Frank, we'll going to miss you very much. :( Is everything ok? Joonas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiborn Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Phew! Oh that is good to hear Frank!. :D I'll be keeping an eye out for you when I am online. Be safe and enjoy yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny c Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 :nea:Good luck Frank, I hope we might see you back here someday. RAG-FM 107.7 Raglan New Zealand & ragfm.com ........"Top Music Top of the Dial" Click HERE to listen to the RAG-FM radio stream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricVdM Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Good luck, hope to see you back later, we will mis you :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKIye Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Thanks Frank however I don't understand your sudden decission Your announcement gives Me a strange feeling Please keep your profile and at the time you're ready feel free to drop by Visit and listen @ BW ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdean Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Good luck Frank. It is clear that it is the V/O and production stuff you are stopping hence you not coming here much. All the best with you new venture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankallen Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 Thanks Frank however I don't understand your sudden decission Your announcement gives Me a strange feeling Please keep your profile and at the time you're ready feel free to drop by My Reasons and decision to go is not sudden, In fact its been on my mind for a while. Firstly i stopped producing Vo's etc as People really dont know what a thank you means its all take take take and when they get there gone. I appriceiate bw is more than voice imaging and production but thats the greater part of what i do. Its not about you sincere members that have the respect its about the ones that dont and it is somewhat hard to ignore when its in your face. Thats my reason and decsion. http://i.imgur.com/qrEUBH7.png Check us out http://www.itsjustradio.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arfa B Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 hear, hear Frank- VERY well said!!! I too have felt the same at times.... in fact sometimes I have thought why bother-in fact I still feel like that at times! I sadly realised a long time ago that the Human Race is intrinsically greedy, insincere, and not generally very grateful. The truth is "If they get it for nothin' IT HAS NO VALUE!" One day....... I have a strange feeling I may well join yo9u as I am beginning to wonder the worth of giving free v/o work away? It's hard enough in 2010 to make any dosh anyway! If I have helped you with a Freebie- please be kind enough to add a link from your own site or blog to mine- thanks! http://arthurburton.net Thank You! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny c Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I think its about time we look at this now before we start losing more of our members. It comes down to the "free voice over" topic again & again. Do we need to scrap it all together from here ? BW is more than just a free VO site. We could still do them between ourselves somehow. I think James needs to come in on this with some idea's. Its great that the VO people do this, but it is getting out of hand. Maybe you should have to be a member here for at least a month or two before you can ask for one and have done at least 50 odd, meaningfull posts . But what ever something needs to be sorted. Maybe some code in the site which stops new people "ASKING FOR A FREE VOICE OVER". I dont know, Im just kicking a few ideas around and trying not to upset anyone. RAG-FM 107.7 Raglan New Zealand & ragfm.com ........"Top Music Top of the Dial" Click HERE to listen to the RAG-FM radio stream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiborn Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 My Reasons and decision to go is not sudden, In fact its been on my mind for a while. Firstly i stopped producing Vo's etc as People really dont know what a thank you means its all take take take and when they get there gone. I appriceiate bw is more than voice imaging and production but thats the greater part of what i do. Its not about you sincere members that have the respect its about the ones that dont and it is somewhat hard to ignore when its in your face. Thats my reason and decsion. oh my Frank! I was wondering if it had something to do with feeling taken for granted like that. Very true words you have spoken. I know there are times when I have felt like that also. But it is the core of you guys here that keep me here. You are such an awesome bunch. Please do not throw the baby out with the bathwater! :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiborn Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Arf and Johny... yes, i am in agreement with you both. When you put a lot of time and effort into doing a 'free' (to them), job.. like I last did for that answerphone bloke... and he did not even acknowledge the time put in or give thanks, it does tend to make one a tad cynical... But I really hate to see any of you guys leave because of a few inbred ingrates! Far better, imo to stop giving freebies and put a set, agreed upon price on them. Hell's bells, the money raised could even go to Arf's tigers if need be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoutcaststreaming Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I find it surprising and annoying that about 85% of all posts made in the forums are about free Voiceovers. SCS - Dedicated Bandwidth Servers Shoutcast / Icecast / Windows Media Transcoding - Auto DJ - Mobile Radio - FLASH Players - Auto DJ Broadcasting World's Stream Host of the Month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKIye Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I agree with most of you and as quoted BW is more than free VOs ... If I make some productions to some liners as regular member I do this also for free ... and a thank you is welcome offcourse ... however I don't have an "imaging pro" status ... but I was a pro into media and radio since 1978 So concerning myself, its to Me these days somekind of a hobby, and I like it BW is more than just a free VO site... Maybe you should have to be a member here for at least a month or two before you can ask for one and have done at least .... I agree also with the quote that a new member should have a higher amount of posts (ex: with an automatic lock script who makes it not possible to post into the free VO section untill they reached XX-posts) ... but most important is that the posting at the free liner or free production section gives "access only" to BW members ... I have sometimes the idea during a visit that more guests are online to specific topics where somethings can be "found for free" On the other hand, BW don't may become a place where money is the most important thing I believe that James makes at the index page several links to profiles or spots where VOs can be contacted - at the time a paid liner is required I believe into the concept of BW as place meant to people who have interests into broadcasting in general Since my day of Birth I adore music, and I'm in love with that special thing called radio. Some periods into my life I had also lesser interests or I have been working for free at an event where money was "promised" ... Everyone who's into media has more or less similar experiences I learned one important thing during all these years : never close doors or burn bridges ... everyone is in need for them somewhere during his/her life No place is better or best, We only can make Our stay a little enjoyable and if somebody needs a break, take some time off to do more important things ... and stay in touch ... if that can be the spirit of BW, it gonna makes Us all very very happy Visit and listen @ BW ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arfa B Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 The truth is, I am afraid... with the advent of cheaper studio gear and PC's and the hard economic times- everyone and their Dog are doing v/o's now.... and giving them away only exacerbates the problem. We (generally) in this , dare I call it "artistic" field are generally not money heads- and feel good if we can help people out. That is fine....as long as the person who recieves the free work does NOT make any profit or gain out of our kindness!!! This is being abused greatly here and also on RD and VPN. Sadly, it has reached epidemic proportions, and all three sites need to take a long hard look at themselves. But, may I add- all may be to scared to do this- as they are afraid someone new will come along, start a new site - and steal their "audience"... so what! Who needs these leeches anyway- they aren't worth bothering with! In fact the idea of free v/o's may well have run its course and burnt itself out. OK, the concept has been there, it has been tried- and it has failed! Marketing yourself this way- does absolutely sod all for you- I know from experience! Who wins? Not the v/o artist, and neither the site- as revenue from providing these services which are abused is very little in the long run, and hardly cover the cost of the servers and time needed to run the site!!! The situation is also made far worse by the incessant undercutting that some v/o people are only too fond of pursuing!!! Some of these guys would do a read for less than it costs to buy a cup of tea in my local transport cafe- sorry, but - THAT IS TOTALLY BLOODY STUPID! In fact that riles me much more than someone taking a freebie and not saying thanks, it only serves to ruin the situation for EVERYONE! People do this I guess, because they don't really care too much about other people in this biz.... in fact, many of them aren't really in any biz- even though they pretend very much to be so. All they are, is bored people sitting in front of their PC all day long with nothing better to do than undercut and totally undervalue our work. This is am sure is also done in order to boost their fragile ego's... "wow-look at me I did a voice over" and at the same time "stitched up" a real v/o pro!!! I have been doing this since the 70's and any damn ego was killed off a long time ago! Like a musician, I do this for artistic reasons mainly (it can't be for the money for sure!).... but, sure would like the leeching gitz who take, take, take to realise- this will all come to an end! Frank, the bottom line is, it's far too easy for the leeches to come and take.... then just carry on living a selfish existence, probably stuffing their faces with cheap burgers whilst boasting about these "voiceover losers" they have just had over! Yep, these are the kind of people that abuse the whole damn thing and the free v/o scene has just about eaten itself!!! And finally, before anyone suggests do this or do that to get these leeches in order- NOTHING will work, they read what they WANT to read, they understand what they WANT to understand.... reams of suggestions, and attempts at educating these ignoramuses will NEVER work!!! After all, all they have to do is go to an alternative site and go leeching there!!!! This brings me full circle....UNDERCUTTING.... yep, it has various forms, but that one single slitary word- that sums it ALL up! Rant over.... for now at least! If I have helped you with a Freebie- please be kind enough to add a link from your own site or blog to mine- thanks! http://arthurburton.net Thank You! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricVdM Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 you are all right, but is not limited only here but also in everyday life, I repair computers for people who can't afford to go to the repaire store, but I almost never get a thank you and I do this for free they just need to pay for the parts I repair...more.... they expect you to be ready every minute of the day to help them and if you don't reply directly then they'll get angry. My daytime job is security guard and do all this in my free time. I can give you many examples as I also help artists with new songs and organizations with what they need like promotion etc. but they want more...more...more.. and if I ask something they're to busy or they just don't reply. So you see I think it's just mankind these days to take..take..take and don't give, even a thank you is to much, but I keep doing all this for the small group of people who realy are thankful for what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiborn Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Nice rant Arf! And I agree with what you say, and you also Eric. It is a very sad reflection of these times. It has been my life experience in the 50 odd years I have been here.. that genuinely creative people are the most giving and caring.. wanna bees merely take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 As you all know I am new at doing VO's and thanks to BW members I am learning. This is going on in all trades online and off as Eric stated. As Afra stated, Nobody minds helping someone that isn't going to profit from the VO you do for them. Undercutting has been going on for years, I closed a business (painting, building repair etc.) in part due to undercutting back in the 1980's. I needed to make no less than $25 per man hour back then and I had customers tell me, “Well I can get someone to do that for $10 an hour.” I just told them go ahead and hire the $10 person, But do they have insurance just encase something happens to the building or someone gets hurt? If not, Guess who pays for it, You do! Well people still went with the $10 person. I can go out and find people right now that will charge $10 per hour. It's absolutely insane to charge $10 per hour these days. I made that back in the 1970's as an employee in the building trades. Like today the company I work for we need to average $55 per man hour to cover cost. What are we running into? You guessed it the $10 to $15 person and everyone that works for our company makes more than that per hour. But anyway, I know that above is off topic. But as you can see undercutting has been a problem in any trade for years and it always will be. You will never get people to agree on a standard fee for any trade. Someone will always charge less and work for free basically. I don't understand where this working for less and less came from over the years. But it's absolutely insane to keep working for less. The cost of everything else is going up. But the person trying to make a living should work for less and less and it's to the point you are working for free. Somethings wrong with this picture if you ask me. Ask people this: Do you work? Do you get paid? How about you go to work and the people you work for just say, Well we aren't paying for your work. So you need to find some other way to pay your bills, buy food etc. Writing this just gave me an idea. I would like to do a poll or something on what everyone needs to charge for a read. The problem we will run into is, The value of everyones currency, theres the British Pound, US Dollar, NZ Dollar, etc. and then theres the cost of living in each country. Everyone needs to pay bills, buy food, equipment and so on and so on. Maybe we can take the top 10 currencies and see if we can come up with an average fee and base pricing on one currency. Something like this will take time to set up. Because you have the dry reads, produced and other reads. I think I'll get some examples from the forum and see what each VO needs to do the read. “In their currency”. So we can call it “International Standard Rates” "I'm Retired" Donations PayPal.Me/artistview . I only do dry reads, if you want FX's you'll have to add them, I might add them. If you use my voice please link to my art site AbstractArtist.xyz, Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unkle B Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I've been hear a while and havent asked for a VO yet. In fact I have only asked for one over at Radio Daddy! I came here to BW to learn more about radio not get free VO's. It is a nice add on but I dont think it is what the site is about. Perhaps there should be a sister site for VO's and come up with a scale for pricing. Maybe even one free then anymore paid for or even a paid membership for free VO's with the VO artists splitting the income. Either way the name Broadcasting World is what brought me in not VO's, but there is more here about VO's than broadcasting. I dont mind people wanting to make money at their art, in fact I encourage it! But with so much talk about VO's James should change the name to Voice Over World. :-) I dont blame Frank wanting to leave. It is a dog eat dog business! Especially when people cant even say a simple thank you. But it would be nice to see the bulk of a forums about broadcasting be about broadcasting and not just a small fraction of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerpoweroldie Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Shame to see Frank go, he did a couple of good V/O's for me and he knows I appreciated it. I will give a link to his site if he so desires just like I did for Arfur and Kiwi who did free work for me also. I have no budget for jingle work and could do it myself but to have some pro voices is so cool but that was not why I joined here. If the artists get paid work from the links on my site then that's really cool and I will do the same for anyone who contributes to my station and asks for a link back. Peace and love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brutish Sailor Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Let me grab a paddle to beat this dead horse frank... Take it easy and drop me a line on Roxu sometime. KNSJ.org / 89.1 FM San Diego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinglemaster Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Frank. I haven't been around for a while - I have actually been quite unwell this last week or so and no, I am not dead as my lovely brother said! LOL. I will be sorry to see you go. Why not stick around just for the banter? I haven't done any VO's here for months due to the take and run mob. I haven't contributed much either to be fair, but it is a great site with some great people including you. The whole freebie section should be closed now. It has run its course and has caused much more trouble than it is worth. I am also sick of people popping in, registering and putting out their grubby little hand for whatever they can grab. Stick around Frank and that goes for you Mr B too! I know where you both are so if you don't come back iw ill have to pop over and insert a large mic stand in your both - blunt end first!:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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