Rivendell comes back (free tours available) limited time

[klnkfm]

hello everyone

 

I just wanted to say that i have read numerous threads here, and i must say im surprised that everyone is using such a JUNKY clunky software such as SAM, i can understand if you have 3 listeners (like most internet "stations" do) including your mom and brother in the other room, but for FM or LPFM or serious broadcasters there is no better software then rivendell.

 

I know your all scared of the big bad linux but we just launched this software on a station on FM that has come back after an 8 year silence under new ownership, in this time we needed to test lots of software and had veryl ittle time frame to do so, so several advisors were used

 

software tested was

 

OMT Media Touch

WIDEORBIT (formerly Scotts studios)

BSI SIMIAN

DAD

ENCO

NEXGEN

STATION PLAYLISTER

SAM (Only to laugh at it some more though, it was never a SERIOUS consideration)

JAzLER RADIOSTAR 2 (this was a close choice but its lack of true voicetracking killed it for us)

Nexkast (with a lot of alterations this software will one day beat out SAM and may be a contender for the FM market as well)

radiodj

rivendell

 

 

ultimately rivendell was chosen based on the pure power that was put behind the making of this software, it has the combined knowledge of broadcast professionals and some of the best programmers in the business, and it was free. The project was given 50k to spend on the automation system contract, now that money will go somewhere else (perhaps to open source development?)

 

Rivendell will handle on air play out of a fully automated station on the FM platform as well as a simultaneous web stream, it will handle xml play data to the website, it will take care of RDS encoding data, it will handle djs (should hte go live) as well as scheduling 24/7 reliable rotations (not things like sam playing the same patterns) and rule based scheduling , it will also handle long form network retrieval of podcasts, and network programs, not to mention the power behind its cart organization and library management and editing suite, it will also handle voiceracking of automation logs of 10 djs in different dayparts, all done remotely over the internet using SIP technology

 

Anyone who is serious about looking at this software but does not want to go through the "trouble" of setting it up can request a demo on the test system we used when working on the project (hurry though before it is taken offline), just pm me and ill setup a time to go through this system with you,) you can ask axisdj on this forum as he was treated to one of these "look behind the scenes" tours recently,

 

Hope everyone has a great day!

[klnkfm]

I am not allowed to mention a brand name or refer to a proper name. But it is so great to see a member post about something I believe in. Thanks for sharing.

 

Jim if your referring to the spacial "offering" lol i wasnt giving it praise, i would love to have you PM me and tell me more about the software you think im promoting, as for rivendell it is hardly forgotten

 

write to me!

[OwenND]

I agree Rivendell is terrific, just fantastic and pretty easy to get to grips with. Until a few months ago I'd never used Linux but adapted to it quite easily to try out Rivendell after using Windows since v3.1 in 1990. I now only use Windows off line, Linux for everything on line. Even now a fresh install of XP with no updates, using software that was built for XP works fast, like a dream. I think Microsoft has been gradually killing of XP with it's updates.

 

Anyway back to Rivendell. I've said it before and will say it again. Rivendell's biggest drawback is lack of mp3 support. Is it snobbery or what? Mention mp3 and Rivendell in the same sentence and you get a sermon on 'quality' rivaled only by an evangelist. Yes I know Rivendell plays mp2 and everything else, and that mp3's are crap. The only thing is that with all the general noise in the world most are totally unaware that mp3's are crap nor couldn't care less. I think Rivendell is cutting off it's nose to spite it's face.

[OwenND]

I agree Rivendell is terrific, just fantastic and pretty easy to get to grips with. Until a few months ago I'd never used Linux but adapted to it quite easily to try out Rivendell after using Windows since v3.1 in 1990. I now only use Windows off line, Linux for everything on line. Even now a fresh install of XP with no updates, using software that was built for XP works fast, like a dream. I think Microsoft has been gradually killing off XP with it's updates over the past year.

 

Anyway back to Rivendell. I've said it before and will say it again. Rivendell's biggest drawback is lack of mp3 support. Is it snobbery or what? Mention mp3 and Rivendell in the same sentence and you get a sermon on 'quality' rivaled only by an evangelist. Yes I know Rivendell plays mp2 and everything else, and that mp3's are crap. The only thing is that with all the general noise in the world most are totally unaware that mp3's are crap nor couldn't care less. I think Rivendell is cutting off it's nose to spite it's face.

[klnkfm]

I've said it before and will say it again. Rivendell's biggest drawback is lack of mp3 support. Is it snobbery or what? Mention mp3 and Rivendell in the same sentence and you get a sermon on 'quality' rivaled only by an evangelist.

 

first off rivendell DOES support MP3, there was a fork some time ago an people do use this technology, the sermon your referring to is because MP3 is closed source technology as in someone owns it, and linux is open source as in everyone shares knowledge, MP3 is not native to linux because the developer didnt give linux permission to just give their work away

 

But i digress rivendell does support mp3s so that argument for now is void, one thing rivendell doesnt do though

 

crash like windows systems do!

[OwenND]

Brilliant! I would like to know how then!

 

Back in February when I was experimenting with Rivendell I was told through the Rivendell-dev Digest that mp3s needed to be imported into Rivendell and converted to wav. I was given instructions so commenced to convert them. I had over 64,000 mp3s and could soon see it was going to take a very long time. I don't really need to import them all but even sorting through them to see which ones to import was a large call. The news service came as mp3, as well as other material which needed converting to wav. I was also told the licence position as you pointed out caused the Rivendell/mp3 issue. That was a stumbling block. The licence applied to the U.S. Those living outside the U.S. could write a module for Rivendell to play mp3 if they so wished I was told. I would write one if I knew how.

 

Audacity is also a free audio software that is open source and given away. To facilitate mp3s you can download a Lame encoder, insert it into Audacity. Whamo! It plays mp3's. I only wish it was as easy in Rivendell. I've searched the internet high and low but can't find a solution.

 

As old and as basic as it can be ZaraRadio free can handle thousands of songs, download and play mp3s via Download Manager. I also could go away on holiday leaving it running for up to two weeks at a time, returning home to see it still running. Progress is not impressing me much at the moment. If somebody has an answer I'm keen to try it out.

[klnkfm]

I was told through the Rivendell-dev Digest that mp3s needed to be imported into Rivendell and converted to wav. The news service came as mp3, as well as other material which needed converting to wav. I was also told the licence position as you pointed out caused the Rivendell/mp3 issue. .

 

Yes all true, rivendell uses a script called RDIMPORT (its fired from the linux terminal) and it basically re encodes mp3s to high quality wav files for playback.

 

As far as i know imported files from network feeds stay as source and are played as temp wav files (dont quote me on that though)

 

Licensing will always be the reason, it is my suspicion that whoever found out how to use rivendell with mp3s is not in the usa at all, more then likely not, 75% of rivendells players are from overseas (across the pond)

 

I would be happy to give you a tour but if you have already seen it i dont know that i would be offering you anything new, and finally you must remember rivendell appeared on the scene when wavs were still a hassle, now you can put an entire 25k song library and all the production on a 500gb drive (yes you can get so many more mp3s on there but at a substantial audio loss, and lets not forget how fast wavs open and can be edited in audio editors)

[SmoothJazz]

As far as I can tell the MAJOR draw back to RDIMPORT is that it WILL NOT recurse through sub directories, correct me if I am wrong. That means all your music import files need to be in one huge directory and cannot be easily managed at that level. Importing thousands upon thousands of tracks currently segregated in to logical Artists - Album sub directories is a nightmare. How does your station manage it's music?

[klnkfm]

As far as I can tell the MAJOR draw back to RDIMPORT is that it WILL NOT recurse through sub directories, correct me if I am wrong. That means all your music import files need to be in one huge directory and cannot be easily managed at that level. Importing thousands upon thousands of tracks currently segregated in to logical Artists - Album sub directories is a nightmare. How does your station manage it's music?

 

 

Interesting comment

 

I dont remember if rdimport recurses, i think if you had *. on the end it looks for every file with that extension in the folder

 

rdlibrary is where all the sorting comes post import!

 

its in that module that you do all the real sorting, but remember all the carts get pushed to groups when you import, so lets say you had all 80s they would all be pushed to an 80s GROUP, which you could reference at anytime, i dont know of any FM radio station that uses artist as a grouping, not when you can search and sort in realtime, majority of them use cart ID for the sorting

[SmoothJazz]

Interesting comment

 

I dont remember if rdimport recurses, i think if you had *. on the end it looks for every file with that extension in the folder

 

rdlibrary is where all the sorting comes post import!

 

its in that module that you do all the real sorting, but remember all the carts get pushed to groups when you import, so lets say you had all 80s they would all be pushed to an 80s GROUP, which you could reference at anytime, i dont know of any FM radio station that uses artist as a grouping, not when you can search and sort in realtime, majority of them use cart ID for the sorting

That's realy not the point, if one is starting from scratch and already has files on hard disk in that manner, that would be a monumental task to go through and move all the tracks from the sub directories to a workable directory for the initial import, every modern broadcast software I have encountered is designed to import from disk with sub directories.

[klnkfm]

That's realy not the point, if one is starting from scratch and already has files on hard disk in that manner, that would be a monumental task to go through and move all the tracks from the sub directories to a workable directory for the initial import, every modern broadcast software I have encountered is designed to import from disk with sub directories.

 

I get it your talking about moving all the files to one directory, thats a good point, let me ask the devboards and ill get back you, I am sure there is a script or something to move everything or recurse properly

[OwenND]

I would be happy to give you a tour but if you have already seen it i don't know that i would be offering you anything new

 

Thank you, but that is OK. I just thought I may have missed something on the mp3 angle. That's what prompted me to inquire about the tour. Airtime and RadioDJ are just two free automation softwares that offer mp3 inclusion. Maybe they are based outside the U.S. There are also many free mp3 players available that accommodate mp3s. Just wish Rivendell could get around the issue.

 

I began my library over eight years ago. Much of it I took from vinyl, CD's, tapes and 78's. I filtered out the hiss cracks and pops on each one, saving them as wav. When I had the bright idea of starting up a LPFM station I found that the playlist generators at that time seemed to only work off mp3's. So I converted my wav files to mp3, then dumped the wav's. My collection ranges from the early days of recording to about the year 2000. The entire LPFM thing is a hobby only so I don't go for ratings, don't advertise, just play all sorts of stuff. I'm surprised at the number of listeners I did attract.

 

My master hard drive has all the music listed under artists. The year and genre is located in the tags. There is a backup master as well. The radio computer has it's own hard drive with a copy of the master all listed under artist. In mp3tag I can then make up m3u lists based on decade, year, genre, artist or whatever. From this m3u list I use a playlist generator to make up playlists which are m3u as well and sent to the automation software which plays them. So therefore any one track could be in a m3u in the 30's, 1937, jazz or latin list.

 

So from 5am to midday I play adult contemporary which is popular music 1964 to 2000. Then in the afternoons older popular music, country, classical, folk, then returning at drive time to adult contemporary. Evenings are swing, jazz and other bits and bobs. From 10.30pm it's smooth and easy followed by light music 'till 5am. Christian on Sunday.

 

I had all this working with Tabascos Amazing Clockwheel and Zara free fed through Sonos, free, then to a transmitter. It was reliable, playlists were made up in advance and I could go away on holiday for two weeks to come home and find it still running.

 

All this is a hobby, I'm answerable to nobody. Yes! it maybe unorthodox. I'm off air at the moment owing to financial reasons but plan to return soon. Just trying to streamline the operation with newer software. It's proving to be a bit of a nightmare. I thought SAM may be an alternative. But gosh. Everybody rubbishes it big time. Rivendell may be too much of a headache to set up.

[klnkfm]

Rivendell may be too much of a headache to set up.

 

Owen

 

Maybe that sums it up best for you, Rivendell is not for the weak at heart, put the time in and get in with a great group of people who will help you set it up, learn the system, and troubleshoot any problems (albeit at their time pace not yours) and help you understand how this whole system is really run, Otherwise settle for SAM or the "next big thing" in a 100+ dollar package of thrown together windows "automation " software

 

Truth is one of the main reasons rivendell is used mostly by professional broadcasters is they have the time, the resources and the backups to play with such a software, is it easy to get it on your station probably not, but once it was setup it would be running for a lifetime!

 

Wish you luck

[Brutish Sailor]

True.

 

Just like some professional DJ's prefer to use Vinyl records vice CDJ's or MP3 interfaces.

 

More power to you....

[OwenND]

Professionalism is not determined by the tools they use, its determined by what the professional produces. In photography as an example there are those with good gear taking lousy pictures. There are those taking award winning photos with a pinhole camera. There is an old saying. "It's a poor workman who blames his tools." (or 'workperson' if we want to be pc!)

 

Over the past four months I've done some pretty intensive trials of Rivendell, Sam, Airtime, RadioBOSS and RadioDJ. They're all good, all have different features, all compliment each other and all ran perfectly for the time their trial allowed. I don't intend to rubbish any of them.

 

I think we as users need to be fair on the developers who put their wares up for us to evaluate. Just a few simple things our end. Whether it's a new computer or old we need at least.

 

1. Make sure our computer is running on a clean operating system. Clean out all the crud and crap left over from old software. CCleaner and A Cleaner are pretty good free clean up tools. Even after running them quite often a manual search through hidden files and the registry reveals left over files and broken registry links. Some software seems to plant and leave bits in the strangest of places.

 

Don't blame the trial software then post complaints on the internet forums. The cause of the problem may well be your computer fighting it's way through a fragmented system full of mountains of crud.