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Guest streamingnewbie

Hello. New member here.

 

I am in the US and want to learn how to run my own Internet radio station. (Hopefully I joined the right website?!)

 

Growing up I was in love with the radio, and for the last decade I get all of my music from Internet radio stations - mostly because I think modern music sucks, and these stations allow me to listen to music I grew up with in the 70s/80s.

 

Here is someone can help me to figure out where to start...

 

Thanks.

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First of all, Welcome to BW !

 

It would be a nice & great idea to introduce Yourself and tell some things about your experience.

 

- My feeling is that You are a radio addict and music lover but never have been into radio as host. Is that right ?

- Do You have any skills and / or knowledge about software to setup an online station ?

 

These days people have tons of choices at the internet between free and paid (license) software. Its up to the user to check them, try some trail versions, make a choice in what is good or better in use compaired to Your skills.

 

Examples :

- RadioDJ is a very good and free software and one of Our members "RDJUser" is a member to their forum.

check their website : https://www.radiodj.ro/

- ProppFrexx is a paid (license) software advanced in use and possibility.

Its used by many professional projects and by hosts who are making their voicetracks (VTs) at home before they are uploaded to a station server and who are ready for airplay at scheduled times / radioshows.

check their website : https://www.proppfrexx.radio42.com/

 

Please check both links, download a version and play around and discover what kind of software suits the best to You.

Good luck !

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Guest streamingnewbie

First of all, Welcome to BW !

 

Thank you! What is your name?

 

 

It would be a nice & great idea to introduce Yourself and tell some things about your experience.

 

- My feeling is that You are a radio addict and music lover but never have been into radio as host. Is that right?

 

Well, I am in the U.S. and grew up in the 70s/80s glued to the home stereo my parents bought me when I was like 10. Second to maybe the 50s/60s/ that was the "Golden Age" of radio in the U.S.

 

Radio was my "friend".

 

After college, radio/music/TV/movies went to shot in the mid 1990s and so I stopped listening.

 

Then in circa 2008 - while transferring an old radio show from the 80s from cassette to my computer, I stumbled across the DJ who recorded the show, and in no time discovered both Internet radio AND syndicated shows.

 

Over the last decade I have recorded about 10,000 hours of shows onto my laptop using Audacity.

 

Most of my rock heros and DJs and radio stations are dying/dead, and so I am on a mission to learn how to create my own *legitimate* Internet radio station...

 

1.) To carry on the torch

 

2.) Because I have another startup that could benefit from owning an Internet radio station.

 

 

 

- Do You have any skills and / or knowledge about software to setup an online station ?

 

None. But I do work in IT, and as mentioned, have been using Audacity for a decade doing basic editing.

 

 

 

These days people have tons of choices at the internet between free and paid (license) software. Its up to the user to check them, try some trail versions, make a choice in what is good or better in use compaired to Your skills.

 

Well, first off, I am interested in *real* and *professional* solutions/skills. (Not so dork running a "radio station" of of Windows95 from his parent's basement and with 20 listeners.

 

I want to learn how to have a real radio station like several that I listen to online in the U.S. and Canada.

 

 

 

Examples :

- RadioDJ is a very good and free software and one of Our members "RDJUser" is a member to their forum.

check their website : https://www.radiodj.ro/

- ProppFrexx is a paid (license) software advanced in use and possibility.

Its used by many professional projects and by hosts who are making their voicetracks (VTs) at home before they are uploaded to a station server and who are ready for airplay at scheduled times / radioshows.

check their website : https://www.proppfrexx.radio42.com/

 

Please check both links, download a version and play around and discover what kind of software suits the best to You.

Good luck !

 

Where are all of you located? North America? Europe? Other?

 

I will check those out, but am hoping to just talk lots and ask questions as I know WHAT I want and WHERE I want to go, just don't know HOW to get there and it has been my experience that people in U.S. are dicks that don't want to share any knowledge - like it's some secret club?! :rolleyes:

 

Look forward to talking more!

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Guest streamingnewbie

- ProppFrexx is a paid (license) software advanced in use and possibility.

Its used by many professional projects and by hosts who are making their voicetracks (VTs) at home before they are uploaded to a station server and who are ready for airplay at scheduled times / radioshows.

check their website : https://www.proppfrexx.radio42.com/

 

Are those price PER MONTH?

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The prices are for one license / pc (so "not" per month)

Download and check out if it suits with what You are looking for.

The demo version can be used as the paid version, so far that every 3 minutes a beep appears.

However meanwhile You can learn how it works.

The best thing You can do if all looks OK to You is a license as "Non-Commercial - Professional" ...

Or You start with a "Basic" license and upgrade afterwoulds.

 

The brand is made by Bernd Niedergesaess from Germany.

For details and contact visit their website : http://www.radio42.com/

 

Some contacts of Me are using ProppFrexx and are very satisfied about the support by the owner to any questions.

Are those price PER MONTH?
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If you're just starting out then i reckon RadioDJ would be a better bet for you its easy to use once setup

 

https://djgarybaldy.co.uk/help-cant-install-radiodj/

 

There are lots of utilities on my blog too. like StandAlone encoding software for you to stream to either Shoutcast or Icecast.

 

Don't be afraid to search the RadioDJ forums for help and advice. If you search there's a good chance your question has been answered before.

 

https://www.radiodj.ro/community/index.php

My Blog https://djgarybaldy.blogspot.com

User of RadioDJ FREE radio playout software since 2010.

How to Install RadioDJ: https://djgarybaldy.blogspot.com/2020/08/how-to-install-radiodj-free-radio.html

RadioDJ is my most FAVOURITE piece of software EVER

 

 

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Guest streamingnewbie

The prices are for one license / pc (so "not" per month)

 

But what is the period of time?

 

A "license" implies a renewal is associated versus out right buying something which the website says you cannot do.

 

So is the pice for "One year"?

 

 

Download and check out if it suits with what You are looking for.

The demo version can be used as the paid version, so far that every 3 minutes a beep appears.

However meanwhile You can learn how it works.

The best thing You can do if all looks OK to You is a license as "Non-Commercial - Professional" ...

Or You start with a "Basic" license and upgrade afterwoulds.

 

Yes, I see that is an option.

 

But doing that would be way premature. There are so many questions that I have and I'm in an "exploratory" phase to see if what I want to do is even viable...

 

 

 

The brand is made by Bernd Niedergesaess from Germany.

For details and contact visit their website : http://www.radio42.com/

 

Some contacts of Me are using ProppFrexx and are very satisfied about the support by the owner to any questions.

 

Based on my limited research yesterday, ProppFrexx looks like most sophisticated software out there - at least that came up in Google. (I wonder what large radio stations use?)

 

One thing that is a big setback for me is that this product is Windows-only. (That is a *horrible* architectural decision in 2020!!)

 

 

Btw, I sent you a PM, GKIye :-)

 

 

So, GKIye, the people you know that are using this software, what are their applications?

 

Are they just "hobbyists", or do you know of anyone that is running a serious Internet radio station with staff and all?

 

My goal is to be able to have enough profit from such a venture that I could ultimately quit my day-job...

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Guest streamingnewbie

If you're just starting out then i reckon RadioDJ would be a better bet for you its easy to use once setup

 

https://djgarybaldy.co.uk/help-cant-install-radiodj/

 

There are lots of utilities on my blog too. like StandAlone encoding software for you to stream to either Shoutcast or Icecast.

 

Don't be afraid to search the RadioDJ forums for help and advice. If you search there's a good chance your question has been answered before.

 

https://www.radiodj.ro/community/index.php

 

Are you affiliated with RadioDJ?

 

Why would you choose RadioDJ over something like ProppFrexx?

 

It seems all of the decent broadcasting suites suffer from being Windows-only. :-(

 

Can you please share with me what you do as far as Internet broadcasting?

 

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Nope Not affiliated as you put it. i'm a humble USER of the software and have been for near on 10 years.

 

Its stable it works and there are no messy licences or keys that expire.

 

There are Professional stations using RadioDJ for their playout. some of them using more than one copy to run separate stations.

 

RadioDJ to me is the best there is for FREE if you don't believe me read the Testimonials section of the RadioDJ forum.

 

N.B: You'll notice there are very few negative reviews because RadioDJ does what it says on the tin.

 

I know in some cases the word FREE can mean inferior BUT not in the case of RadioDJ. I've found the paid for products on the market lack certain things like stability & support.

 

RadioDJ has an amazing support network..

My Blog https://djgarybaldy.blogspot.com

User of RadioDJ FREE radio playout software since 2010.

How to Install RadioDJ: https://djgarybaldy.blogspot.com/2020/08/how-to-install-radiodj-free-radio.html

RadioDJ is my most FAVOURITE piece of software EVER

 

 

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First of all ... RDJUser has the knowledge and skills in the use of RadioDJ for reason that he is using it for a long period of time.

So he can point You to several important subjects.

 

About ProppFrexx (aka PF)

The license can be understood as what is paid to use it at Your pc, with a key the software is activated from demo to full use.

This is not a renewal key, once You buy it, its Yours and updates gonna appear.

 

Secondly, as shared into my earlier replies, PF is invented by a German and during the past Years PF became a standard to both internet & terrestrial radio's.

PF is fully compatible with Stereo Tools and all 64bit VSTs.

Its very often used by hosts to make their voicetracks who can be uploaded directly to the server of a radiostation 'if" the radiostation itself is using PF.

This remote voicetracks are getting more and more popular for reason that a host don't has to be live in the studio, but can make the VTs at home.

 

Cons can be that PF is a software who has to receive the commands where to do what it has to do.

Every track needs tags of "next", "fade out" & "outro" ... But once this is done it runs smoothly and perfect, also the insert of the TOTH, the use of "containers" who contains commercials / ads etc.

 

About Stereo Tools ...

This software takes control of the sound processing.

At first sight its expensive ... however the "basic" license is able to manage almost any setting. The other versions are meant if used by FM or AM stations.

check : https://www.stereotool.com/

 

Please notice that I don't say that both are the best invention since decades, I share these details for reason that more and more projects are using it.

Both softwares have also a forum were members can search for some tools, insight, help ...

Making a download of both softwares as a crack ain't a good idea for reason that every X-time (daily or weekly) a build in key is changed.

So the key who is paid by the user stays, however if a user has a crack their key is overwritten and has no use anymore.

Based on my limited research yesterday, ProppFrexx looks like most sophisticated software out there - at least that came up in Google. (I wonder what large radio stations use?)

One thing that is a big setback for me is that this product is Windows-only. (That is a *horrible* architectural decision in 2020!!)

Btw, I sent you a PM

So, the people you know that are using this software, what are their applications?

Are they just "hobbyists", or do you know of anyone that is running a serious Internet radio station with staff and all?

My goal is to be able to have enough profit from such a venture that I could ultimately quit my day-job...

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Guest streamingnewbie

Nope Not affiliated as you put it. i'm a humble USER of the software and have been for near on 10 years.

 

Okay? (No sponsorship deals yet, huh?) *LOL*

 

 

Its stable it works and there are no messy licences or keys that expire.

 

Okay.

 

 

There are Professional stations using RadioDJ for their playout. some of them using more than one copy to run separate stations.

 

RadioDJ to me is the best there is for FREE if you don't believe me read the Testimonials section of the RadioDJ forum.

 

Well, I will keep that in mind.

 

 

N.B: You'll notice there are very few negative reviews because RadioDJ does what it says on the tin.

 

I know in some cases the word FREE can mean inferior BUT not in the case of RadioDJ. I've found the paid for products on the market lack certain things like stability & support.

 

RadioDJ has an amazing support network..

 

Well, my first challenge is to figure out the bigger picture before I drill down into product specifics, but thanks for the info and if I go with that, then expect me to look you up!

 

I'm not sure where to go from here...

 

Guess I am waiting to hear back from GKIye.

Not sure where to go from here...

 

Can I keep asking questions in this thread or do I need to start others?

 

I know the end result I want but have a long path to figure out how to get there?! :sad:

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@GKIye,

 

Good timing!

 

 

First of all ... RDJUser has the knowledge and skills in the use of RadioDJ for reason that he is using it for a long period of time.

So he can point You to several important subjects.

 

Good to know.

 

 

About ProppFrexx (aka PF)

The license can be understood as what is paid to use it at Your pc, with a key the software is activated from demo to full use.

This is not a renewal key, once You buy it, its Yours and updates gonna appear.

 

Okay, I interpreted it differently. I guess they use the term "license" because you rarely ever "own" software, but I guess this would be like buying (old-fashioned) MS Office where you pay ONCE for a license and they you can use it until it no longer works.

 

So I think the PF one I looked at was like $500, so if that is a one time fee then that's pretty cheap. (If it was $500/month then I'd need more justification to buy it!)

 

 

 

Secondly, as shared into my earlier replies, PF is invented by a German and during the past Years PF became a standard to both internet & terrestrial radio's.

PF is fully compatible with Stereo Tools and all 64bit VSTs.

 

Not sure if I follow where you are going, but to clarify something I said, when I said "Windows sucks" - and it does - I was in no way commenting on the quality of PF. From the little I saw on their website, PF looks like a Lamborghini which is exactly what I want even though I don't even have my 'learner's permit" yet?! :lol:

 

Yes, I am looking for solutions that a commercial radio station would use, because IF I go down the path of building an Internet radio station, I want it to make $$$ for me and not just be a hobby or personal playlist - nothing against those who do that!

 

 

Its very often used by hosts to make their voicetracks who can be uploaded directly to the server of a radiostation 'if" the radiostation itself is using PF.

This remote voicetracks are getting more and more popular for reason that a host don't has to be live in the studio, but can make the VTs at home.

 

I have more questions on that, but let me finish reading your response and see where to go next in the conversation.

 

 

Cons can be that PF is a software who has to receive the commands where to do what it has to do.

Every track needs tags of "next", "fade out" & "outro" ... But once this is done it runs smoothly and perfect, also the insert of the TOTH, the use of "containers" who contains commercials / ads etc.

 

What is "TOTH"?

 

Being in IT, it sounds like PF is a "platform" that requires a "scripting language" in order to run. Or put another way, it sounds like PF doesn't run "out of the box" but needs to be configured, and that is done via "scripts".

 

Am I close?

 

 

About Stereo Tools ...

This software takes control of the sound processing.

At first sight its expensive ... however the "basic" license is able to manage almost any setting. The other versions are meant if used by FM or AM stations.

check : https://www.stereotool.com/

 

I'll come back to this after I know more...

 

 

Please notice that I don't say that both are the best invention since decades, I share these details for reason that more and more projects are using it.

Both softwares have also a forum were members can search for some tools, insight, help ...

 

SUPPORT is worth more than gold!!!

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My reply was already written on top of your current post :)

 

and yes You can keep asking things into this thread ... Shoot a question at any time ... Well so far that We are available

Guess I am waiting to hear back from GK

Not sure where to go from here...

Can I keep asking questions in this thread or do I need to start others?

I know the end result I want but have a long path to figure out how to get there?! :sad:

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Guest streamingnewbie

My reply was already written on top of your current post :)

 

and yes You can keep asking things into this thread ... Shoot a question at any time ... Well so far that We are available

 

Cool!

 

Okay, you were warned... ;-)

 

 

Is there a realistic and viable way to host PF on a Linux box?

 

I don't want to start a war here, but I really don't like Windows - I switched to Macs in 2008 and all of my webhosting is done on a Linux VPS.

 

I called my webhost last night, and running a Windows VPS jacks up the cost like 70% and running a dedicated Windows server could double or triple my cost?! (Plus Windows is harder to work with and less secure.)

 

My fear is that the Audio industry has the same quirk as other industries/professions and everything in on Windows (e.g. Accounting software).

 

To save me $$$ and allow me to have better security, I wonder if I ran Wine on my Centos VPS if I could get PF to work? Does anyone know?

 

 

Also, maybe I should back up and descibe what I am trying to do?? :)

 

(Short version)

 

I am working on a stratup business and the thought occurred to me a few weeks ago... "It would be rather handy if you also owned your own Internet radio station. Not only could you actually play DECENT music - unlike what is on the airwaves now - BUT you would also have a free platform to advertise!"

 

Way down the road, but IF I could have let's say 1,000 concurrent users during the day/evening and the traffic was steady, it might be a great place for me to promote my business.

 

Also, worst-case scenario, if I could make enough $$$ off of it to break even, I would own my own radio station, and how cool is that?

 

So while I am open to using open-source solutions and starting smaller and growing, my ultimate goal is to build some serious-shit - similar to my startup business and not do some "cutesy" stream with 5 of my friends listening. (Again, no judgement on those who have that goal.)

 

I have no problem spending $1,000/month if I can make $2,000/revenue. (And I have no problem spending $10,000/month if I make $20,000/month!)

 

Slight advantages that I have include...

 

- Like the Journey album, I was "Raised on Radio"

- I work in IT

- I am a serious entrepreneur

- I "get" radio - although I am starting to think I don't know shit about Millenials and Generation Z'ers, but that is another topic!

- I still believe (or at least hope) that Alan Freed-style productions can sell

- I still believe that top-notch Program Director skills can sell

- I still believe that the American public is desperately crying for a HUMAN-touch when it comes to radio/media/news

- Since 2008, I have recorded approximately 10,000 hours of Internet broadcasts and nationally syndicated radio shows, so I have a *very* good sense of what professional radio and professional shows sound like, and my goal is to mimic a lot of them while stillf ind my "own voice".

- I already have about $3,000 worth of audio gear to be sued for voice-overs/podcasts/my website, so that can't hurt?!

 

 

So while I should be focusing on getting my primary business going, I wantto start researching this whole Internet radio station thingy, because I think it could help take my business to the next level, PLUS it would be cooler than bat sh*t!! :thumbup:

 

 

Not sure if any of this helps?

Edited by streamingnewbie
A few more bullet points
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TOTH = Top Of The Hour

Said the old fashion way "the beeps"

 

About the "containers" ...

These are to the user at home in fact "empty" slots in a playlist.

However containers do have as content ads etc ... can also be used to insert at specific times local or international news etc

So during the time a playlist is on air a container gets their data as scheduled by the station.

 

Feel free to check the stream of a project who is using both PF and Stereo Tools at this link ... https://streammelinda.herokuapp.com/?q=http://192.95.46.223:9358/stream/1/

What is "TOTH"?

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About the technical details I can't help for reason that I'm a Die Hard radio guy since 1978 ... but I'm not a tech guy.

The owner of this forum is James and he has tons of experience and knowledge about scripts, technical details etc ...

So sorry that I'm not able to answer Your last questions.

 

I'm sure that You are very interested in the setup of an own project and that money has no borders.

Many projects would like to say the same, however to them revenue is a huge problem in the running of their project.

 

During the past decades (since 1978) that I'm into radio as professional I learned one important thing ...

Radio itself isn't a business. People who run a radio as business do fail.

Radio is a kind of lifetime virus, people have it or not ... and the Die Hards have it.

Add those Die Hards as host to a station and they gonna uplift the project. But don't let them run your radio, they have lesser untill no interests in the business behind the scenes.

If a host match with your view on the format of what You are willing to achieve as image of your station, You gonna succeed.

 

I'm convinced that You have the ideas to manage a project, to build a platform ... but keep in mind that doing it by yourself isn't the right mind set.

Surround yourself with like minded people, create an imaging concept of the project, get in touch with some great hosts and most important learn from eachothers mistakes.

Managing needs targets and goals, and You would be a great manager and who has knowledge in the way a projects can be runned.

 

I hope these details are usefull to You as entrepreneur

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TOTH = Top Of The Hour

Said the old fashion way "the beeps"

 

Okay.

 

 

About the "containers" ...

These are to the user at home in fact "empty" slots in a playlist.

However containers do have as content ads etc ... can also be used to insert at specific times local or international news etc

So during the time a playlist is on air a container gets their data as scheduled by the station.

 

The stuff that pays the bills!!

 

 

Feel free to check the stream of a project who is using both PF and Stereo Tools at this link ... https://streammelinda.herokuapp.com/?q=http://192.95.46.223:9358/stream/1/

 

Que sera sera :thumbup:

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Guest streamingnewbie

About the technical details I can't help for reason that I'm a Die Hard radio guy since 1978 ... but I'm not a tech guy.

The owner of this forum is James and he has tons of experience and knowledge about scripts, technical details etc ...

So sorry that I'm not able to answer Your last questions.

 

Is he ever around to help answer?

 

 

I'm sure that You are very interested in the setup of an own project and that money has no borders.

Many projects would like to say the same, however to them revenue is a huge problem in the running of their project.

 

Money HAS borders, but I am smart enough to know that you don't run a (successful) business on a shoe-string budget.

 

I always laugh when people think all it takes to make $$ online with a website is a $5/month GoDaddy account and WordPress... :rolleyes:

 

 

During the past decades (since 1978) that I'm into radio as professional I learned one important thing ...

 

Radio itself isn't a business. People who run a radio as business do fail.

 

I agree.

 

Radio is a "platform" and a means to an end to make $$$ IF you do things properly AND you are lucky!

 

 

Radio is a kind of lifetime virus, people have it or not ... and the Die Hards have it.

 

I have it!

Add those Die Hards as host to a station and they gonna uplift the project. But don't let them run your radio, they have lesser untill no interests in the business behind the scenes.

 

If a host match with your view on the format of what You are willing to achieve as image of your station, You gonna succeed.

 

By "host" you mean "radio personalities", right?

 

 

 

I'm convinced that You have the ideas to manage a project, to build a platform ... but keep in mind that doing it by yourself isn't the right mind set.

 

Well, I was hoping to set up an automated Internet radio station where I could pretty much do it by myself, less some voice-over people. But maybe I need to change that attitiude?

 

I do know of a terrestrial/Internet radio station in California where - other than commercial voiceovers - the owner runs everything, and I assume he is fairly successful.

 

 

Surround yourself with like minded people, create an imaging concept of the project, get in touch with some great hosts and most important learn from eachothers mistakes.

 

Managing needs targets and goals, and You would be a great manager and who has knowledge in the way a projects can be runned.

 

I hope these details are usefull to You as entrepreneur

 

Yes, all good advice and very interesting!

 

 

P.S. Are you going to share where you live? Country? City?

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Thanks for your reply !

 

Concerning your quote .... Thats what I was willing to say ...

If You do everything by yourself with as target to achieve revenue it gonna be very difficult to get results.

Surround yourself with like minded people and check what is possible.

If those people match with your basic views on a project start building a project.

- Does the format sounds enjoyable ?

- Is the imaging pack (aka IDs, stationcalls) a kind of mirror of the format that is played ?

- Create a test stream and share it with people into your neighbourhood ... Do not share it with your best friends ... they gonna say that it sounds awesome, but they don't tell You the truth. Best friends are not telling you always the real truth.

- Tweak the format if some parts are receiving bad feedback.

- If You're willing to make an online project for your own region, target the content to that audience (cfr : age, life style, family or singles etc).

- ... ... ...

 

Once most of these things are giving you an insight to your basic ideas add the flavor to it by using scheduled sets with some hosts.

Choose to use a host at your primetime hours during the day. The other sections / hours of the day non stop music is most often the best alternative.

Non stop can give great results if there are restaurants, pubs etc into the neighbourhood who are in search for specific music.

However that restaurant, pub etc can become "a client" if they are convinced of the content.

In other words ... "Give some ... take some" !

Well, I was hoping to set up an automated Internet radio station where I could pretty much do it by myself, less some voice-over people. But maybe I need to change that attitiude?

I do know of a terrestrial/Internet radio station in California where - other than commercial voiceovers - the owner runs everything, and I assume he is fairly successful.

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Guest streamingnewbie

A lot of information to soak in so far!

 

Many interesting things have been said, but I think I want to get back to the technical aspects for now.

 

From a high-level (and abstract) standpoint, can someone explain to me what components are needed to actually create an Internet radio station?

 

Here is how I thought things worked...

 

I already have a webserver, and I assumed that there was some application that I would install on my webserver which would be responsible for acting as a digital jukebox (i.e. queing up the music) and then it would also be responsible for actually streaming the music from a website.

 

Then I also assumed - or more like was hoping - that I would be able to manage everything remotely from my MacBook Pro laptop where I live.

 

The assumption is that I would upload all of the music to my webserver, and then I would manage things remotely - like being a DJ with access to the software that acts as a jukebox.

 

Can someone help me understand how all of the plumbing works? (And please talk in platform independent terms, because my goal right now is lerning how to "drive" versus buying a specific car!)

 

Thanks!

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I've done a post about how you would get RadioDJ to work on an Apple Mac. https://djgarybaldy.co.uk/installing-radiodj-on-an-apple-mac/

 

Yes it does involve secondary software and a copy of Windows as RadioDJ is a Windows only programme.

 

AFAIK there isn't a great amount of radio automation software available for the Mac.

My Blog https://djgarybaldy.blogspot.com

User of RadioDJ FREE radio playout software since 2010.

How to Install RadioDJ: https://djgarybaldy.blogspot.com/2020/08/how-to-install-radiodj-free-radio.html

RadioDJ is my most FAVOURITE piece of software EVER

 

 

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